Comments on: VIDEO: Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows

By: Verona Rylander

Verona Rylander — Wed, 07 Nov 2012 03:54:29 +0000

This issue is a real meeting of consciousness and culture, emotion and rationality, practicality and idealism. In addition to the points raised in other posts, overpopulation is a major driver in our current environmentally destructive practices in agriculture and animal use. I wonder how much additional land it would take to replace the calories from animals with humanly edible plant energy. How would that land be fertilized and watered? Which grain cartel would buy it and supply it with patented seeds? The natural ability of ruminants to digest cellulose and turn it, via the bacteria in their guts, into protein and fat is an important part of the life cycle. Monocropping and CAFO’s are both abominations that support too many humans on the planet while destroying the earth’s vitality. This is a terrible situation where we have transcended but excluded wisdom about how to nurture the lower holons that our lives depend on.
Another issue is distinguishing instrumental and intrinsic value and seeing that they are two aspects of evolutionary design. Each holon has intrinsic value, yet has an instrumental value to the larger holon. They are complementary, not competitive.
I do think it’s important to become aware of cultural assumptions about what we eat. I struggle with somehow sensing that my malaise when forced to eat a vegetarian diet (i.e. on retreat) arises from a deeply held belief about what is best for my body/mind (basically a Paleo-style one). Yet it’s not something that I can just easily and simply contradict with another belief – “you’ll be fine.”

By: Linus Roache

Linus Roache — Tue, 30 Oct 2012 13:25:56 +0000

Such a great interview with a clear perspective on the reality of the Situation. Without the zeal of the righteous vegan this interview helps to lay out what is and what could be and also what is really changing in consciousness, I’ve been vegetarian for over 23 years but this helps to make clear and more conscious what my own response has been about. Thank you!

By: Michelle Yee Choi

Michelle Yee Choi — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 23:52:12 +0000

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By: Philippe

Philippe — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:31:02 +0000

Often, vegetarians are also environmentalists. I think it’s a little bit ironical that a lot of environmentalists will consider mankind not better, and sometimes even worse, than nature. They will reject the idea that mankind is superior to animals, and in general the idea of hierarchy in nature. But at the same time, when we talk about eating food, animals seem to be more sensitive than plants ? Isn’t this contradictory? Rejecting hierarchy between mankind and nature and accepting hierarchy between animals and plants?

By: Tim Gannon

Tim Gannon — Wed, 17 Oct 2012 03:31:05 +0000

I wish I got the rational side of the argument. Both Joy and Andrew seemed trapped in emotion. Absurd is not a rational move. I just don’t get this.

One reason I’d love to get clear on the rational argument for not killing and eating animals is that I could use it to argue against the killing of unborn children.

I stand and pray for an end to abortion. My desire is to be humble, kind and patient. I have no response to the emotional abuse pro life people (like me) are subject to. Whose life matters?

By: Sybille

Sybille — Tue, 16 Oct 2012 06:32:14 +0000

I liked the dialogue – It really made me rethink a lot of things – I agree about the savagery of this practice, – however, not necessarily about the ling between vegetarianism and an evolved consciousness.

Just the other night I saw an interesting French film about WWII – and remembered that ADOLF HITLER agreed with Joy and was a VEGETARIAN for most of his adult life!!
So I just want to point out that the link may exist , but is surely NOT as straightforward as you seem to make it.

By: David

David — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 22:29:15 +0000

Thanks for your perspective. It helped to shore up mine. I too thought she was polarizing in a polite way! Links are outstanding, Sean.

By: David Racette md facs

David Racette md facs — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 20:22:46 +0000

We are omnivores. Get over it. I heard the word “absurd” too many times and “the reality is this”
when what i see was “this is your perspective”.

You have to kill plants to live. We have to kill something
to live. Correct? Then as she says “the reality of it is it’s just a matter of where you draw the line saying it’s ok to eat this but not this” And yes i know how many bushels of this or that it takes to produce a pound of meat.

When we send our combines out into the fields they slaughter billions of plants cutting off their heads and disposing the rest of their bodies as garbage.

Something has to die for us to live. Thats da facts.

After i listened to this I thought, is she saying that if everyone stopped eating meat there would be no more rape, murder, pillage, drug abuse, energy crisis,
paternal leadership, and a massive cultural shift would occur?

We are omnivores. Attaching eating meet to a large number of major problems in the world seems a real stretch to me.

By: ruby sandhu

ruby sandhu — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 19:57:35 +0000

Brilliant! Thank you so much for bringing to our attention the framing and current narrative of the dominant culture – here the Corporations / marketing (vested interests) which provides ludicrous justification for the taking of life when there is no necessity for doing so. I am in agreement with you that this is indeed a social justice issue – the ideological mentality of privilege and dominance which prevailed over racism, slavery is now with regards to animals. Excellent framing that if you can eat a pig and cow then please be prepared to justify why you will not eat your dog. However there is a realisation that a rational response will not provide the answer but how evolved and conscious the individual is.

By: Kriste

Kriste — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 02:13:53 +0000

This dialogue parked a few thoughts:

Although glad this subject is on the table, I feel we need to evolve the language we use to describe ways of thinking and living that are becoming obsolete: if we really want to invite others to consider carnism and other ethical subjects hoping to awaken others, saying meat-eating is “absurd” and comparing it to rape will only ignite more dualism (has it ever been necessary to rape for basic survival?). It really wasn’t that long ago that meat eating was natural and necessary, so current meat-eating is definitely understandable, far from absurd, as our collective consciousness was focused on evolving other things. And as Melanie said, people can see footage of brutal animal suffering then go out and eat a hamburger the next day, and in spite of more “awareness” more people are smoking cigarettes and eating poorly, so neither shocking video nor shaming language isn’t really effective large-scale. This subject like all others is evolution of consciousness, and it will take an evolved, more compassionate way of communicating to foster the most efficient transition possible.

Not mentioned in this interview or trailer, I wonder if Melanie interviewed members of meat eating cultures who claim to have a spiritual connection with all animals including those they eat, or people in Arctic or costal regions who “live off the land”, and have never adopted large-scale or for-profit operations.

We are currently seeing the adoption of many fundamental-traditional belief system practices within modern culture. The “paleo” diet being something that extremely educated and spiritual people are embracing, including those who practice Evolutionary Enlightenment. I am curious to hear their thoughts.

As Daniel mentions, the possibility of sentience in plants is being explored with interesting results.

Lastly, as someone who grew up allergic to dogs and cats, I was fascinated by the scope of human-pet relationship eventually questioning the ethics of owning pets and how they are bred and treated before wondering about the ethics of eating meat. There are millions of pets being abused, tortured, starved, discarded, living in crates and filth; and on the better scale some living a lonely, bored existence as their owners are at work, suffering from severe genetic pathologies due to profit-driven breeding or obesity and other human pathologies, being teated with human anti-depressants or anxiety drugs (and why are they depressed or anxious?), being elaborately dressed-up like dolls purely for owner amusement (not related to cold-weather coverings)… Then, there’s the question on what we feed our pets. If we keep dogs and cats as we transition to veaganism, do we assume we can breed these animals to become vegans as well so we no longer kill anything for food? Ethically, as it relates to carnism, how could we continue breeding any animal for any reason, pet or food?